Posts by Lee Marsh

16

How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

by Lee Marsh in

i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

and it got worse after i left.

one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

Lee Marsh

Not quite sure what you are trying to say Beth Sarim

16

How many people thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped

by Lee Marsh in

i know i was suicidal before i was disfellowshipped.

and it got worse after i left.

one night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

Lee Marsh

I know I was suicidal before I was disfellowshipped. And it got worse after I left. One night a friend told me that he went home the night before and wasn't sure if he would ever hear from me again.

My sister tried many times before finally succeeding in 2005.

At a Meetup group I attended all 9 people in attendance said they had thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped or left and experienced the shunning.

The impact on a person's life it massive. You immediately lose every person, your way of life, even your God.

Some people do it and the Witness family covers up the really reason for the death. Or they say it was because the person felt so guilty that they took their own life. Witnesses would never admit that it had anything to do with their own family shunning them.

If you have been on this board for a while then you probably know there has been one or more people here who did take their own life. It was heart-breaking for many here who knew them.

So did you think about it?

Was it related to being disfellowshipped and then shunned?

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

What we do know is there there is a very high incidence of people who commit suicide after being disfellowshipped.

At a Meetup group I am in, a few years ago we had about 9 people in the group. Someone asked how many of us seriously thought about suicide after they were disfellowshipped. Every single person put their hand up. Every one!

A few of them tried. They were glad they were still alive. We were glad they were still alive.

But we have all read the stories of people who do commit suicide or the family covers up that it was a suicide. They will say it was because the person felt so guilty for what they did. But they would never admit that it was the harshness of the shunning policy.

Everyone in that group felt like they lost everything. Every person they knew. Their entire way of life. Their entire belief system. Their God. In one moment, everything gone.

I know I felt it. Everyone in that group felt it. My sister felt it and tried many times before she finally succeeded.

Over the last 24 years of listening to ex-JWs countless people felt the same way.

The numbers may have been higher before the internet became a safe place to fall.

But the reality is that when you are immediately treated like the walking dead, it isn't a long step to thinking you might as well be dead.

That is what the shunning policy does to people. How many of us needed therapy to deal with this traumatic hole in our lives?

How many people have to die?

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

Group: "Hi, we're a group with a lot of rules. We are pretty strict with our rules, but we love people that agree with us and hate the dissenters. We think former group members are super bad, and we don't talk to them. Here is a list of our rules. Do you want to join?"
You: "Yep."

Really. Do you really think they are that up-front about it?

"oh yes. If your child decides to leave you won't be able to talk to him again unless he comes back. Still want to join?

35

Help wanted finding images

by Lee Marsh in

i am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.

they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

i know there are images of the structure of the wts.

Lee Marsh

Thanks too for the link. I don't have that update.

35

Help wanted finding images

by Lee Marsh in

i am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.

they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

i know there are images of the structure of the wts.

Lee Marsh

Those are great!!! Thank you

35

Help wanted finding images

by Lee Marsh in

i am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.

they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

i know there are images of the structure of the wts.

Lee Marsh

I have been looking for this one and can't find it.

not being in submission can result in disfellowshipping.

submission could be on any level within the congregation

wife to husband
publishers to the WTS or elders
elders to anyone higher
children to parents

just as long as it shows that refusal to be in submission can result in DFing. I saw plenty on not being in subjection can result in death but not DFing

23

How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization

by EasyPrompt in

regarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .

as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .

https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.

Lee Marsh

My huge awakening was to read Matthew 23. Not a verse here and there or just the parts that suited my purpose. But the whole things. "Woe to the Scribes and Pharisees..."

And I took a hard look at how the WTS stood up against that chapter.

MAJOR FAIL.

That was brutal.

It takes great courage to honestly look at that chapter and not make excuses for them. "Yes but..."

Just read what it says and compare. Since I was a JW, it made sense to compare THAT group and not others. Members of those groups can do that.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

MeanMrMustard

There is nothing about removing an individual's right to decide who they talk to. Not one word.

It is about a group telling people that they will die if they talk to the "mentally diseased" if that isn't hate speech I don't know what is? And they are using God to coerce people into doing what they want not to protect people but to prevent them from leaving too if they find out they have been lied to.

In the WTS there is no honorable way to leave. There is no compromise. No "agree to disagree". You are the "walking dead" and if JWs have contact with us then they too are dead.

People do have the right to join any group they want and believe what they want. They do not have the right to force others to join or believe the same thing.

And the GROUP leaders do not have the right to force anyone to do things that are ethically wrong, no matter how much they want to control everyone.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

Lee Marsh

https://www.aawa.co/shameful-shunning-in-english-and-dutch/ This is what they do and it must stop

Shameful Shunning in a Thousand Words

Original [English version] posted on November 3, 2013 by Rick Gonzalez

Eating with the family

beginning quote --

This is a picture of my dad eating. He had just made lunch for me, but he couldn’t eat it with me. I had to eat it at another table with my four-year-old son while he sat there away from me.

Why? Because that’s what the Watch Tower Society tells him to do.

I posted this picture on a Facebook forum October 26th. The first response I received was, “Don’t know what to say. This boggles the mind; mind-control religion at its very worst!”

Minutes later a flood of comments and “Likes” followed, reminding me that a good picture can easily replace a thousand words.

For those of you who are curious, I must explain that my extended family began shunning me a year ago after I questioned the authority of the Watchtower’s Governing Body. My family’s unanimous well-meaning response to my doubts was by expressing their opinion that I “must be an apostate” and “severe shunning would surely bring me to my senses.”

After my mother died eight months ago, my dad, being all alone, went to the elders in the congregation he attended to see if he’d be allowed to visit with me. They said that since I was his son, he could visit with me at his house. But he could not discuss religion – nor could he share a meal with me at the same table.

Two weeks ago, I called my dad and asked if his grandson and I could visit him. He said “yes” and even offered to make lunch. But shortly before serving the meal, he said that he wasn’t going to sit at the same table with us. When I asked why, his reply was, “The organization says so.”

That confession allowed me to vent my feelings for maybe thirty minutes, describing to him about the harm caused by shunning and other Watchtower policies. He listened politely. But I could see that he was in a “cognitive dissonance mode” – so nothing I said registered with him.

After I spoke my piece, he served a nice meal to me and my son. Then he chose to sit alone in a small area of the kitchen with his back turned to us while eating his lunch. I sat there speechless, trying to figure out what was going on in his mind. That’s when it occurred to me that I had to capture this moment on my camera phone.

As I nibbled on my lunch, a feeling of pure sadness engulfed me. But as bad as I felt, I had this gut-wrenching feeling for Dad. This had to be much harder for him. Here’s an 80-year-old man thinking that he is doing this for God. He feels he has to suffer through this intuitively wrong act to be loyal to what he thinks is “God’s organization.”

But the story does not end here. My son is growing up seeing this silliness going on. Can the Watchtower be blind to the damage caused by their harmful policies, not just to us adults but to innocent kids who have “no dog in the fight?”

Tears were running down my face as I drove away from my father’s home. But I also realized that I was not alone in this situation. Today, there are thousands of us who no longer believe the Watchtower’s lies we used to feed on. We now know the truth about several Watchtower policies that sacrifice the civil rights of current and former members.

We can no longer turn a blind eye to the suffering and cries of others due to the Watchtower’s policy of shunning. I know that I can’t!

Extreme shunning is inhumane! It is a cruel and unjust punishment – a despicable act of a mind-controlling religion that’s afraid of losing its members and financial contributors. My goals are to make the non-JW world community aware of the emotional and psychological damage from shunning, for the court of public opinion to find the Watchtower guilty as charged, and to put a stop to this barbaric practice.

And yes – I think that sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words – sometimes, maybe even more! ---- end quote